Nerfing skills - Guild Wars Forums

Klaaz · Apr 04, 2007, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Why does Anet need so much time to nerf skills? Cause, BoA, SF and other builds need a nerf and fast.

anshin · Apr 04, 2007, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Learn to counter those and you won't need nerfing.

Mournblade · Apr 04, 2007, 05:37 PM // 17:37

We have the Sardelac Sanitarium forum for suggestions if you'd like to make some. And unless you offer up constructive advice, you're just being a whiny baby.

To answer your question - It always takes a long time to consider the ramifications of each skill change.

ss1986v2 · Apr 04, 2007, 05:37 PM // 17:37

in before the lock...

its coming, dont worry. supposed to be this week.

(side note: BoA sins, ok. but SF? really? its not the issue it was before the last balance.)

darkknightdominator · Apr 04, 2007, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Ever tried making a BoA blind and seeing how much damage it does?

SF already was horribly nerfed. The only way i can even run it now is with energy management. And it isnt easy.

HawkofStorms · Apr 04, 2007, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Its a valid question, though yeah those things can be countered (aegis for BoA, spreading out for SF and SH, etc). Anyway, a.net has hinted that a skill balance is coming up within the next week. We won't know if it will affect those skills you listed yet, but we will see.

Thomas.knbk · Apr 04, 2007, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by anshin

Learn to counter those and you won't need nerfing.

This way of thinking is absolutely stupid.
Does everything in Guild Wars have counters? Yes. Does this mean you can leave things in an overpowered state and it won't hurt the game? No.
I doubt you even play PvP, but if you do, do you remember Energizing Finale? It used to give 3 energy per shout. People used it in pairs of 2 paragons with defensive shouts, who at the same time buffed monks to rediculous strength (monks are limited by energy way more than anything else, so giving them an extra 3 pips of energy made them really, really powerful). This created a metagame with very defensive builds that were nigh impossible to outpressure, and made every single match go to VoD. (I've seen matches of up to 70 minues)
Energizing Finale could be countered with Vocal Minority. According to your logic, you should force every team to bring two copies of Vocal Minority, because hey, lern2counter. That means two necromancer primaries or secondaries. Forcing people to bring certain classes is not healthy for a game. It's actually bad enough that almost every build needs 2 warriors, 2 monks and a flag runner, if you decide their midline slots for them too, the game becomes too boring.

Another example:
Suppose I create the following skill:

c1 r2
Signet of Ownage
All enemies within earshot take 999999 damage.

Now tell me: would this skill not be overpowered because you could counter it with Protective Spirit, Shelter, and even Distracting Shot?
Ofcourse not. Ofcourse it's overpowered. If you compare it to any other skill in the game, Signet of Ownage would come out on top. That alone makes it overpowered.
Sorry to say it, but your statement 'Learn to counter those and you won't need nerfing.' is just stupid, and anyone who actually plays PvP would agree with me.

EDIT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkknightdominator

SF already was horribly nerfed. The only way i can even run it now is with energy management. And it isnt easy.

OMG YOU NEED ENERGY MANAGEMENT TO PUMP OUT 119 DAMAGE EVERY 3 SECONDS? WTFFFFF?

Qual · Apr 04, 2007, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

This way of thinking is absolutely stupid.
Does everything in Guild Wars have counters? Yes. Does this mean you can leave things in an overpowered state and it won't hurt the game? No.

Well your way of thinking is stupid as well, so just because people can't think outside the box we should nerf every good skill ? You change your build so it can fit the meta game...

Rothaga · Apr 04, 2007, 06:02 PM // 18:02

But if you make a build JUST to counter another build, then you could be susceptible to every other person. Nerfing a good skill makes for more variety in a match.

MrTickle · Apr 04, 2007, 06:09 PM // 18:09

If you can spam SF every 3 seconds without energy management then I'm a dutch uncle...

Pass the weed

Thomas.knbk · Apr 04, 2007, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qual

Well your way of thinking is stupid as well, so just because people can't think outside the box we should nerf every good skill ? You change your build so it can fit the meta game...

You adapt your build. You don't force people to bring certain skills. That's bad for the game. You don't need to nerf every good skill. The vast majority of good skills are still the way they were back in beta.

themeteor · Apr 04, 2007, 06:24 PM // 18:24

I would guess it takes a while as you have to look at all the possible knock on effects. For example if you nerf blocking in some way then m??l??e might be over powered and you will just have to undo what you did and then people will log on to internet forums and complain.

Does-it-Matter · Apr 04, 2007, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

You adapt your build. You don't force people to bring certain skills. That's bad for the game. You don't need to nerf every good skill. The vast majority of good skills are still the way they were back in beta.

Ok, in your first post on this thread you called for Nerfing skills, saying a person shouldn't have to change their build.

Now you say "adapt your build" and avoid the nerfs.

Which is it?

---

Playing a SP/BoA sin (before I changed to A/E Ride the Lightning/Conjure), I can tell you, there's a LOT of shutdowns.

The same for SF or any "over used" build/skill. Most of them are common skills people tend to bring, just need to get creative.

skretth · Apr 04, 2007, 09:23 PM // 21:23

u do know a BoA sin doesnt actually need BoA, granted its downside is that you loose all adrenaline (so what sins dont use it) thats not our fault...
if u change it, chances are they will use lightning reflexes, same duration IAS buff, just longer downtime... if your running AP instead of SP then hey presto, constant Speed Buff

Realm of Fiery Doom · Apr 04, 2007, 09:39 PM // 21:39

If they're going to change some skills, may I suggest that Burning Speed be buffed?

Kamatsu · Apr 05, 2007, 04:51 AM // 04:51

Suggestion's belong in the suggestion's thread:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/f...splay.php?f=19

As this is the Q&A forum and not the whine about builds/skills/nerfs forum..

Thread Closed.

Apr 04, 2007, 05:33 PM // 17:33	#1
Klaaz Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Apr 2007 Profession: E/	Nerfing skills Why does Anet need so much time to nerf skills? Cause, BoA, SF and other builds need a nerf and fast.

Apr 04, 2007, 05:38 PM // 17:38	#5
darkknightdominator Academy Page Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Scotland Guild: Greedy Monkeys Profession: E/Mo	Ever tried making a BoA blind and seeing how much damage it does? SF already was horribly nerfed. The only way i can even run it now is with energy management. And it isnt easy. Last edited by darkknightdominator; Apr 04, 2007 at 05:40 PM // 17:40..

Apr 05, 2007, 04:51 AM // 04:51	#16
Kamatsu Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Location: Australia	Suggestion's belong in the suggestion's thread: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/f...splay.php?f=19 As this is the Q&A forum and not the whine about builds/skills/nerfs forum.. Thread Closed. __________________ Have a moderation related issue or just want to chat? Send me a PM

Apr 04, 2007, 05:36 PM // 17:36	#2
anshin Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Aug 2006 Profession: R/	Learn to counter those and you won't need nerfing.

Apr 04, 2007, 05:37 PM // 17:37	#3
Mournblade Furnace Stoker Join Date: May 2005 Location: Houston, Texas Guild: Dawn Treaders [DAWN] Profession: W/Mo	We have the Sardelac Sanitarium forum for suggestions if you'd like to make some. And unless you offer up constructive advice, you're just being a whiny baby. To answer your question - It always takes a long time to consider the ramifications of each skill change.

Apr 04, 2007, 05:37 PM // 17:37	#4
ss1986v2 Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Apr 2006 Profession: Mo/	in before the lock... its coming, dont worry. supposed to be this week. (side note: BoA sins, ok. but SF? really? its not the issue it was before the last balance.)

Apr 04, 2007, 05:38 PM // 17:38	#6
HawkofStorms Hall Hero Join Date: Aug 2005 Profession: E/	Its a valid question, though yeah those things can be countered (aegis for BoA, spreading out for SF and SH, etc). Anyway, a.net has hinted that a skill balance is coming up within the next week. We won't know if it will affect those skills you listed yet, but we will see.

Apr 04, 2007, 06:02 PM // 18:02	#9
Rothaga Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Mar 2007 Profession: D/W	But if you make a build JUST to counter another build, then you could be susceptible to every other person. Nerfing a good skill makes for more variety in a match.

Apr 04, 2007, 06:09 PM // 18:09	#10
MrTickle Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Aug 2006 Guild: delete this account Profession: N/	If you can spam SF every 3 seconds without energy management then I'm a dutch uncle... Pass the weed

Apr 04, 2007, 06:24 PM // 18:24	#12
themeteor Academy Page Join Date: Apr 2007 Profession: E/	I would guess it takes a while as you have to look at all the possible knock on effects. For example if you nerf blocking in some way then m??l??e might be over powered and you will just have to undo what you did and then people will log on to internet forums and complain.

Apr 04, 2007, 09:23 PM // 21:23	#14
skretth Krytan Explorer Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Australia	u do know a BoA sin doesnt actually need BoA, granted its downside is that you loose all adrenaline (so what sins dont use it) thats not our fault... if u change it, chances are they will use lightning reflexes, same duration IAS buff, just longer downtime... if your running AP instead of SP then hey presto, constant Speed Buff

Apr 04, 2007, 09:39 PM // 21:39	#15
Realm of Fiery Doom Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Mar 2007 Guild: Realm of Fiery Doom	If they're going to change some skills, may I suggest that Burning Speed be buffed?